|
Post by elipsett on Nov 6, 2014 11:38:39 GMT 9
Wouldn't it be more natural to say "van Gogh"?
The Japanese never leave the "van" in this type of name, but I think it's almost mandatory in English.
|
|
|
Post by smith on Nov 6, 2014 15:25:32 GMT 9
Wouldn't it be more natural to say "van Gogh"? The Japanese never leave the "van" in this type of name, but I think it's almost mandatory in English. Now that you mention it, actually, yeah it probably is. I will go ahead and change it. Also, do you by chance know what the reference is? I searched around a little but couldn't find anything. The Japanese reads; 「ゴオグの死骸を載せた玉突台だね、あの上では今でも玉を突いているがね。……」] Which I *think* means something like; So there is this pool table/It's the pool table which has the bones/remains/corpse of Van Gogh on top/inside of it, right, but even now/to this day they still use it to play pool/are still shooting pool on it.
|
|
|
Post by elipsett on Nov 9, 2014 13:19:22 GMT 9
Hmm. I'd agree with your translation offhand, but that's a suspicious sentence... I'm tempted to think that he's talking about something else entirely. For this translation, however, I'd suggest that the corpse was once on it, but no longer has anything to do with it because of the 今でも phrase. He stressed that balls are still rolling, but not that the corpse is around. I think both interpretations are reasonable, though. I couldn't find anything that might have anything to do with it, either, although there is this painting: www.art.com/gallery/id--a84-b1874/vincent-van-gogh-billiards-posters.htm
|
|
|
Post by smith on Nov 10, 2014 8:58:25 GMT 9
Hmm. I'd agree with your translation offhand, but that's a suspicious sentence... I'm tempted to think that he's talking about something else entirely. This is exactly how I feel. I can't help but think that either ゴオグ is someone else entirely (presumably named 'Gogh'), or the author simply made it up. Or if the story is true, his friend just made it up. But why would the author bother to put something in there that makes little to no sense. Also, searching google with ゴオグ 玉突き台 as the key word only brings up links to the original story. So there's that. Odd.
|
|
|
Post by Rusterholz on Nov 29, 2014 14:12:04 GMT 9
Wouldn't it be more natural to say "van Gogh"? The Japanese never leave the "van" in this type of name, but I think it's almost mandatory in English. Now that you mention it, actually, yeah it probably is. I will go ahead and change it. Also, do you by chance know what the reference is? I searched around a little but couldn't find anything. The Japanese reads; 「ゴオグの死骸を載せた玉突台だね、あの上では今でも玉を突いているがね。……」] Which I *think* means something like; So there is this pool table/It's the pool table which has the bones/remains/corpse of Van Gogh on top/inside of it, right, but even now/to this day they still use it to play pool/are still shooting pool on it. 原作: 「ゴオグの死骸を載のせた玉突台たまつきだいだね、あの上では今でも玉を突いているがね。……」 Your translation is: “And Van Gogh’s remains were in this pool table, right, and to this day they still use it for pool games…” Why do you think that his remains were _in_ this pool table? A.Rusterholz
|
|
|
Post by Rusterholz on Nov 29, 2014 14:13:52 GMT 9
Hmm. I'd agree with your translation offhand, but that's a suspicious sentence... I'm tempted to think that he's talking about something else entirely. For this translation, however, I'd suggest that the corpse was once on it, but no longer has anything to do with it because of the 今でも phrase. He stressed that balls are still rolling, but not that the corpse is around. I think both interpretations are reasonable, though. I couldn't find anything that might have anything to do with it, either, although there is this painting: www.art.com/gallery/id--a84-b1874/vincent-van-gogh-billiards-posters.htmJust out of curiosity, what are you tempted to think that he is talking about?
A.Rusterholz
|
|
|
Post by smith on Nov 29, 2014 15:41:42 GMT 9
Now that you mention it, actually, yeah it probably is. I will go ahead and change it. Also, do you by chance know what the reference is? I searched around a little but couldn't find anything. The Japanese reads; 「ゴオグの死骸を載せた玉突台だね、あの上では今でも玉を突いているがね。……」] Which I *think* means something like; So there is this pool table/It's the pool table which has the bones/remains/corpse of Van Gogh on top/inside of it, right, but even now/to this day they still use it to play pool/are still shooting pool on it. 原作: 「ゴオグの死骸を載のせた玉突台たまつきだいだね、あの上では今でも玉を突いているがね。……」 Your translation is: “And Van Gogh’s remains were in this pool table, right, and to this day they still use it for pool games…” Why do you think that his remains were _in_ this pool table? A.Rusterholz ...why the hell did I translate it like that? *on* the pool table is clearly the better translation. Thanks for pointing that out.
|
|
|
Post by elipsett on Nov 29, 2014 16:47:03 GMT 9
I haven't the vaguest idea of what he could be talking about, but it is very suspicious. It seems likely that he is referring to something else and I'm just missing the reference, and it strikes me as unlikely he'd just throw in a total non sequitur just to confuse us.
A story in Speculative Japan (Freud) has a throw-away line talking about Yoshitsune's big skull, and nobody had any idea what he was talking about. I checked with the author (Enjoe Toh, quite alive) who informed us that there is a folktale that he had an unusually large head, even though nobody could find any mention of such on the web.
|
|
|
Post by Rusterholz on Nov 30, 2014 11:56:16 GMT 9
A few other comments/questions:
Why do you translate 僕等三人は at the beginning of the story with 'a couple of friends' and at the end with 'the three of us'?
日頃 doesn't mean 'all afternoon'. Something like 'for a long time' would be better. Therefore to translate 僕は日頃この家に愛着を持たずにはいられなかった。as 'I had been looking forward to seeing this place all afternoon.' is rather strange.
Why do you translate 古池 with 'ponds', there is probably just one pond in this garden.
伸び放題伸びた庭芝 is once translated as 'sprawling garden' and once as 'gardens that stretched on forever (限りなくつづいている庭. in (as you think) a forest!?)'. Why?
僕等はまた松の中を「悠々荘」の玄関へ引き返した. became 'We then went back around to the front Quiet Manor, which sat snug in the surrounding pine forest.' IMHO that is wrong.
And finally 松の中の小みちを歩く is translated as 'walking through a pine forest'. I think 松の中 should be understood as '松の木立の中' 'through a pine grove(?)'.
A.Rusterholz
|
|
|
Post by Rusterholz on Nov 30, 2014 12:05:20 GMT 9
I haven't the vaguest idea of what he could be talking about, but it is very suspicious. It seems likely that he is referring to something else and I'm just missing the reference, and it strikes me as unlikely he'd just throw in a total non sequitur just to confuse us. A story in Speculative Japan (Freud) has a throw-away line talking about Yoshitsune's big skull, and nobody had any idea what he was talking about. I checked with the author (Enjoe Toh, quite alive) who informed us that there is a folktale that he had an unusually large head, even though nobody could find any mention of such on the web. Thank you for your answer. But your explanation in the second part is contradictory to what you said in the first part of your answer.
A.Rusterholz
|
|
|
Post by smith on Nov 30, 2014 17:00:30 GMT 9
The story started off with quite a casual tone, so I translated it as 'a couple of friends', however by the end of the story, the tone of piece had gotten a bit more serious which is why I went with 'the three of us' as it I felt it sounded a little less casual.
It's just how I interpreted the overall feel of the piece. I think something like 'I had been looking forward to seeing this place for a long time' would also be a decent translation.
In the first draft of the translation I actually did translate it as a single pond. But the story goes on to describe the gardens as quite expansive, so I changed it to 'ponds' to emphasize that point. But then thinking about now, I can't recall ever seeing a garden with more than one pond. I might just change that actually.
Again, this has to do with the changing tone of the story itself. The three friends don't seem to fully understand where they are, nor do they really stop to take a look around until the final scene where they are standing on the door steps. The garden doesn't really stretch on forever, I worded it that way to give the reader the same kind of realisation that fell upon the three friends. I may revise that sentence, though. Thanks.
By all means, post an alternative translation.
Perhaps. A 'pine grove' would imply that it is a patch of forestry in the commercial sense, that it was planted to eventually be cut down for lumber, or harvested in some other way. Why would someone build a house in a patch of forestry that would one day disappear? Though it is possible, my parents did that exact same thing (true story, they were never good at thinking ahead). The word 'grove' would also imply very small patch of forestry, perhaps not big enough to need a path. Interesting point, though.
EDIT: Also, Rusterholz, this exactly the kind of feedback that this forum needs. Thank you for posting. I would be super happy if you were to stick around and give feedback on more pieces as they are posted.
|
|
|
Post by rmedhurst on Nov 30, 2014 20:04:09 GMT 9
|
|
|
Post by smith on Nov 30, 2014 20:21:11 GMT 9
Holy Shit! That solves that little mystery. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by elipsett on Dec 1, 2014 10:07:02 GMT 9
I haven't the vaguest idea of what he could be talking about, but it is very suspicious. It seems likely that he is referring to something else and I'm just missing the reference, and it strikes me as unlikely he'd just throw in a total non sequitur just to confuse us. A story in Speculative Japan (Freud) has a throw-away line talking about Yoshitsune's big skull, and nobody had any idea what he was talking about. I checked with the author (Enjoe Toh, quite alive) who informed us that there is a folktale that he had an unusually large head, even though nobody could find any mention of such on the web. Thank you for your answer. But your explanation in the second part is contradictory to what you said in the first part of your answer. I don't quite understand your comment... the first paragraf is referring to this story, the second to an entirely different story. Both are correct, and as it turns out (see the comment about the coffin) the source stories are in fact quite similar in this usage.
|
|
|
Post by Rusterholz on Dec 1, 2014 17:55:34 GMT 9
By all means, post an alternative translation. The impression I get reading your comments is that you don't translate but prefere to make a paraphrase of the original story. (I don't mean to offend you, it's just how I read your translation. I might be wrong).
Regarding the above sentence, I don't understand how you can call this a translation.
The part 「僕等はまた....「悠々荘」の玄関へ引き返した」 (’We then went back around to the front Quiet Manor' is ok, but why do you translate 「松の中を」 as ' which sat snug in the surrounding pine forest.'? Or do I miss something? You said in your answer (regarding another part) "It's just how I interpreted the overall feel of the piece". Is this too a translation according to your "overall feel of the piece".
Another example: 原作: 「僕は実際震災のために取り返しのつかない打撃を受けた年少の実業家を想像していた。」 Your translation: 'I suddenly imagined a young farm worker’s house taking a hit from the earthquake that he couldn’t fight back against.'
年少の実業家 is not 'a young farm worker's house'. 'Young businessman' would be an appropriate translation. 'a young farm worker's house' is a very loose paraphrase. This too, might be fine, but ...
And: 原作: 「それはまた木蔦のからみついたコッテエジ風の西洋館と――殊に硝子ガラス窓の前に植えた棕櫚や芭蕉の幾株かと調和しているのに違いなかった。」
Your translation: 'A small western style cottage, overgrown with ivy. There would have been palm trees and hardy banana plants just outside the windows, growing in harmony with each other.'
It's nearly impossible to comprehend how you have 'translated' that. If you were a student I would say that you don't understand the grammar of this sentence.
Again, I don't mean to offend you and I might be wrong.
A.Rusterholz
|
|