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Post by rmedhurst on Nov 27, 2014 20:56:57 GMT 9
The original text is here.*The Red Candle* *By Niimi Nankichi* Monkey found a red candle when he went down from the mountain to play in the village. But you don’t often see red candles so Monkey thought that it was a firework. He carried the red candle carefully back to the mountain. Soon the mountain was in an uproar. This was because neither Deer nor Boar nor Rabbit nor Tortoise nor Weasel nor Tanuki nor Fox had ever seen anything like a firework before. Monkey said he’d found the firework and brought it back with him. “Oh, how wonderful!” “It’s so pretty!” Deer and Boar and Rabbit and Tortoise and Weasel and Tanuki and Fox pushed and shoved against each other to get a good look at the candle. But Monkey said, “Stop it, it’s dangerous. You shouldn’t get so close. It’ll explode!” And they all cowered back in terror. Then Monkey explained to everyone what a loud noise the things called “fireworks” made when they took off into the air and how beautifully they filled the sky. All the listening animals thought that they’d like to see something so beautiful for themselves. “In that case, let’s go to the top of the mountain this evening and launch it from there,” Monkey said. Everyone was delighted. The thought of a firework scattering stars in an instant across the night sky sent them into raptures. Night fell and their hearts pounding, they climbed to the top of the mountain. Monkey had already lashed the red candle in place with branches and was waiting for them to arrive. At last, it was time to launch the firework. But then there was a problem, which was that nobody went to light it. They all wanted to see the firework, but they didn’t like the idea of going to light it. So the firework stayed where it was. At that point, they drew straws to decide who was going to light it and Tortoise picked the shortest one. Tortoise did her best to act brave as she approached the firework. But was she able to light it properly? Not at all. As soon as she got close to it, her head instinctively shrank back into her shell and wouldn’t come out again. They drew straws again and this time Weasel was chosen. Weasel did a little better than Tortoise in that his head didn’t shrink back into his shoulders. But Weasel was terribly short-sighted so he just kept wandering aimlessly around the candle. Finally, Boar jumped up, a daredevil through and through, and she really did manage to light it. All of the startled animals dived into the depths of the grass and tightly covered their ears. And not content with covering their ears, they shut their eyes too. But the candle just kept burning quietly without even a pop.
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Post by smith on Nov 27, 2014 21:24:15 GMT 9
I must say, it looks pretty good.
Were there any issues that you had with the translation? Any sentences or words that you were unsure about?
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Post by rmedhurst on Nov 27, 2014 21:33:34 GMT 9
I thought I'd start with something quite short and straightforward. I think the part where I was least sure of the original meaning was near the start where the Japanese is その花火を猿が拾って来たというのであります。 and I have translated as "Monkey said he’d found the firework and brought it back with him." At first I went with something like "Monkey had found the firework and brought it back with him," but that didn't seem quite right.
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Post by elipsett on Nov 27, 2014 22:14:16 GMT 9
The Japanese just says the monkey went down to the village from the mountains, but since they don't know the difference between a candle and a firework, it seems likely they aren't the same sort of "people" who live in the village. It could be that the money and friends are simply country bumpkins and I'm thinking too much, but it seems that the village is full of people. In which case, if it says the monkey 拾いました, it might be better to say specifically picked up, or even swiped. It might change the monkey's character, but monkeys are often full of mischief and I don't think it a bad change.
Male/female: Did you arbitrarily assign gender? I note it's MFMF. Just curiosity...
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Post by rmedhurst on Nov 29, 2014 9:16:21 GMT 9
I had visualised Monkey picking it up from the ground, so I could make that more explicit, but maybe "swiped" would be better if the candle is such a rare item. It adds an interesting dynamic.
Yes, the gender was purely arbitrary. I don't have any huge preferences, although I think the alternating pattern fits this kind of story quite well.
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Post by Rusterholz on Nov 29, 2014 14:29:10 GMT 9
I thought I'd start with something quite short and straightforward. I think the part where I was least sure of the original meaning was near the start where the Japanese is その花火を猿が拾って来たというのであります。 and I have translated as "Monkey said he’d found the firework and brought it back with him." At first I went with something like "Monkey had found the firework and brought it back with him," but that didn't seem quite right. The monkey doesn't have to say anything, because the other animals already know. I think it means something like: "People say / It is said that the monkey found this firework."
A.Rusterholz
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Post by elipsett on Nov 29, 2014 16:42:03 GMT 9
I think I agree with Rusterholz; this is simply a handy phrase used in storytelling. I suspect I would leave that part out entirely, because it is in the frame, not the story itself.
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Post by rmedhurst on Nov 30, 2014 19:58:10 GMT 9
As it seems to be fairly redundant, I would prefer to leave it out. Unless someone can suggest that it is doing much more than repeating information we already know - it is a little curious that the word used is "firework" in this sentence.
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Post by smith on Nov 30, 2014 20:33:08 GMT 9
Probably emphasising the fact that monkey thought it was a firework, as opposed to the author telling the reader it was a firework.
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Post by elipsett on Dec 1, 2014 10:09:49 GMT 9
it is a little curious that the word used is "firework" in this sentence. That struck me as a little strange, too, but when you consider a lot of this is what the monkey is thinking, reasonable (IMHO).
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Post by rusterholz on Dec 2, 2014 17:50:21 GMT 9
I think I agree with Rusterholz; this is simply a handy phrase used in storytelling. I suspect I would leave that part out entirely, because it is in the frame, not the story itself. I definitely wouldn't leave that part out.
It's important to notice that (according to Aozorabunko) this is a story for children (初出:「幼稚園と家庭 毎日のお話」育英書院; 1936(昭和11)年11月15日). And the word in question isn't 花火 but その花火 (such a 'firework'). With this comment the storysteller puts an emphasis on the fact the monkey thinks it is a firework but the listeners (small children) should have in mind that it is just a red candle. Small children might become unaware of that while listening to the story.
Of course, if you translate this for adults you can leave it out.
A.Rusterholz
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Post by smith on Dec 2, 2014 19:24:07 GMT 9
Unrelated to the translation itself (I personally think the translation is fine), but I'm not sure how to categorize a story like this one. We have both "fantasy" and "weird tales" which would work, I guess. But as creating a new category only takes the click of a mouse, I propose a "fairy tales" (or similarly named) category.
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Post by rmedhurst on Dec 2, 2014 20:50:40 GMT 9
I think I agree with Rusterholz; this is simply a handy phrase used in storytelling. I suspect I would leave that part out entirely, because it is in the frame, not the story itself. I definitely wouldn't leave that part out.
It's important to notice that (according to Aozorabunko) this is a story for children (初出:「幼稚園と家庭 毎日のお話」育英書院; 1936(昭和11)年11月15日). And the word in question isn't 花火 but その花火 (such a 'firework'). With this comment the storysteller puts an emphasis on the fact the monkey thinks it is a firework but the listeners (small children) should have in mind that it is just a red candle. Small children might become unaware of that while listening to the story.
Of course, if you translate this for adults you can leave it out.
A.Rusterholz
I'm afraid I don't see that in the Japanese sentence; this may well indicate my Japanese level is lacking. But in English, the phrase "such 'a firework'" does not have the effect you are aiming for. Maybe I have misunderstood what you want to say, so a suggested translation for this sentence would be helpful.
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Post by elipsett on Dec 3, 2014 9:35:49 GMT 9
I think I agree with Rusterholz; this is simply a handy phrase used in storytelling. I suspect I would leave that part out entirely, because it is in the frame, not the story itself. I definitely wouldn't leave that part out.
It's important to notice that (according to Aozorabunko) this is a story for children (初出:「幼稚園と家庭 毎日のお話」育英書院; 1936(昭和11)年11月15日). And the word in question isn't 花火 but その花火 (such a 'firework'). With this comment the storysteller puts an emphasis on the fact the monkey thinks it is a firework but the listeners (small children) should have in mind that it is just a red candle. Small children might become unaware of that while listening to the story.
Of course, if you translate this for adults you can leave it out.
A.Rusterholz
This is a question for the translator: if he is translating it for children, than a standard "Once upon a time" start is probably useful. If translated for adult readers, it may not be appropriate. I think the problem with the word "firework" is that, while it is a perfectly good English word, I have never heard or used it. I would be far more likely to call it a firecracker or skyrocket, depending on whether it flew or not. And when I read it in the translation, it throws me off balance for a second, trying to think of what the translator means. As I've mentioned before, the cultural and personal backgrounds of author, translator, and reader affect how each interprets the story. This word might not be a problem for other readers, and since it IS a perfectly good English word I can hardly object to the translator's usage. I merely don't like it.
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Post by smith on Dec 3, 2014 21:09:04 GMT 9
Well, it's been about a week since this story was posted here in the forums. If the author is happy with the current translation, I will go ahead and post up on the site.
Of course, this thread will stay open even after the story is posted and any further edits can be made at a later time.
Also, rmedhurst, please let me know what name you would to use as the translator of this story. You may use a pen-name if you like.
EDIT : Well, rmedhurst seems to be busy. I'm going to go ahead and post the story. Also, rmedhurst, if you want to make further changes or for me to take the story down for the time being, just let me know.
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